Webmaster's note:  When reading the below transcripts that were originally copied from original handwritten transcript, please note:   If it sounds disjointed, it is because the questions were not written in all the testimonies, only the answers.  In the instances where the questions were written, they are indicated by Q. for question and A. for answer.
St. Johns, A.T
April 1, 1886

Examination held before Benigno Lopez,
Justice of the Peace, St. Johns, Arizona.
January 11, 1886.

Witness for the Territory, sworn and put under the Rule.


Q. What is your name, where do you reside and what is your business?
A. In St. Johns, Deputy Treasurer, am 30 years old, Francisco Baca.
Q. Where were you on the 27th of December, 1885?
A. I was at home.
Q. Go on and state in your own way everything that transpired in this case that night?
A. In the evening, I was in the Saloon.   Then I went home about sundown and stayed there until I went to bed, about 9 o'clock.   This was on the 27th of December, 1885.  I was just going to sleep when somebody struck the door or pushed it open.   I was going to get up and two men grabbed me.   I saw three men that came into the house. They entered with pistols.   One of the men that went in pushed me outside and two of the men that was on the outside grabbed me.    Also, three of them brought me over to the Court House.   When they got here they made me open the safe.   When I opened it, they took out the money that was in the safe.   I am not certain whether there was three or four men with me.   When I opened the safe we stayed there in the hall awhile.   When we got into the room, there was a man with a candle and lit it.   They got the money and left me inside, and they went out.
Q. How many persons were there in your house that night, that belonged there?
A. Seven children and all.   I was there myself, my wife, Patricia Baca, Johnny Baca, N. M. Gonzales and myself in the front room, and the women were in the inner room.   I was sleeping in the bed.   N.M. Gonzales was sleeping on the floor.   Three men came in the room.   That was all I could see.   They had masks or rags over their faces.   Had pistols in their hands.   The masks looked white, like pieces of blankets.   They were big men.   I did not see any hats.   There was a light in the inside room.   I could see the men but could not tell whether they had hats or not.   The first thing they did was to take my pants and get the keys.   One grabbed me by the collar and the other was aiming a pistol at N. M. Gonzales' head.   I did not put my pants on there.   All three grabbed me, one by the neck, and one put his hand over my mouth.   They brought me over here as quick as they could.   I saw only three going to the house. One pushed me to the door, and one took me out of the door.   They brought me over to the Court House, barefoot.   When they got here they were mad as I thought, and wanted me to open the safe.   I was not long opening the safe.   They spoke in English.   There was a candle.   All the light I could not see very well, but I think they were all behind me.   I wanted to turn around and they struck me, I think, with a pistol. When I got the outside door open they gave me the key and I opened the inside safe. Nearly all the money was in the vault.   They had the key to the time lock.   There are two keys to the safe.   There was about $11,000 in the safe at the time it was opened that night.   I had the exclusive care of the safe. N. M. Gonzales and J. Baca know the combination.   I had their keys and I am sure the money was in there that night.  The safe has a time lock but it has not or was not in use.   They pushed me into the s.w. corner of the room between the corner and the wall.   One of the men pushed me in the corner and kept my face toward the wall.   I saw the two men taking the money out of the safe.   The money was in silver, gold and checks, about $700 in silver, and kept it in the vault in a safe.   They were throwing something into the sack with the silver, and I think it was the gold.   The money belonged to the County.   I saw three men at the house and three here.   They all had masks.   I could not tell well what kind.   It was raining that night and was very dark.   It was about 10 o'clock.   I don't know how long they kept me at the Court House.   Not long.   They left me in there.   They went out through the hall.   I got out of the window and went to Jose Garcias' house, and called out.   I did not know any of the men.   I did not see Mr. Lee Renfro that day.   I do not know Mr. Gibson.   Have seen him but did not know his name.   I don't remember that I saw Mr. Gibson that day.   I saw Henderson that day, sometime.   Did not see him that night.   I know Ebin Stanley.   I did not see him that day.   Did not see P. F. Clanton that day.   I saw Ike Clanton that day at about 9 o'clock.   I did not know any of the parties that held me up that night.   This happened in St. Johns, Apache County, Arizona. Amount taken was nearly $11,000.

(For Defendants)
Q. Why did you have these parties arrested, if you did not know any of them?
A. Ike Clanton asked for me on Sunday morning.   Three men came into my house.   I went home about sundown.   J. Baca was out in town that night.   Two persons know the combination besides me.   My pants were at the head of my bed.   The light shown in from the other room.   They looked to be big men.   I could not say whether Henderson was there or not.   I was pretty nearly asleep when they came in.   They stayed there until I went out.   Don't know whether they went into the other room or not. It was about 20 minutes, after I went to bed until they came in.   I saw two men outside when I came out.   I was barefoot and without pants.   When they brought me over they made me trot and walk.   When we were coming I did not see any light.   When I got in, I think the light was lit.   Office was not locked.   I could not see very well but I think there were three men.   Three men started with me.   I had to open the safe.   One of the men held the candle.   I could not tell the color of their clothes, only the masks.   They were pretty well covered up with the masks.   At the end of the masks there was something hanging down like wool or rags.   I did not know what they said but I thought they wanted me to open the safe.   I know how much money there was because I had the keys.   Others have opened the safe when I was there.   I was at Springerville.   Came back Saturday.   J. Baca had the keys while I was at Springerville and I counted part of the money when I came back.   Came back Saturday evening.   I do not know exactly how much money was in the safe Saturday.   Tom Hubbell and Romolo told me Ike Clanton was asking for me.   We looked for tracks next morning.   I saw my tracks going home.   When we came back there were many people and I don't know whether there was any money in the house or not.   Jose Garcia was getting out.   I think I told him someone had robbed the safe.   I went home to put on some clothes.   I went running to put on my clothes.   There were no masked men there at my house when I went back home.   I left the safe open when they went out. Locked it after.   J. Baca stays at my house.   I was sleeping in the house.   My bed was nearly in the middle of the room.   N. M. Gonzales' bed was on the floor by the door.   I was gone 15 or 20 minutes, and others, Jose Garcia, I think went home with me.   A man caught me by the throat.   One took my pants and the other pointed a pistol at N. M. Gonzales.   The noise and everything, I could not understand anything. Did not know the door locked because J. Baca was out.   The women were sitting down when I went to bed.   I don't know what they done but they made a noise and did not come out while I was there.   I always keep the money in the safe.   Never take it out.   I don't know how to put the time lock on the safe and did not think it necessary. When I met Ike Clanton Sunday morning he spoke to me and I don't know whether he asked for anyone or not.   I don't know anymore what was said there.   Only that they told me to open the safe.   I don't know whether they were Americans.   They spoke English.   One of them caught me by the throat.   They pulled me out of the bed and drew a pistol.   There was a little light in the room.   There was sufficient light in the Office to have seen their clothes but they would not let me.   They hit me on the head with a pistol.   They did not have to work very hard to get me to open the safe.   My wife was at home when I went home.   N. M. Gonzales was outside when I went home at Tom Perez's or the Saloon.   I don't know what my wife said to me.   I met Patricia Baca when I was going home.   Others were out telling the people.   Patricia Baca was at my house that night.   One of the men caught me; another took my pants, and the other, held a pistol on N. M. Gonzales.   Two men put me outside, and then two men outside, and I think one of the men went back.   I don't know whether he followed us or not.   I am positive that three brought me to the safe.   They took the money out of the safe.   I don't know how they carried it, and I saw them taking the envelopes the money was in.   There was about $700 in silver and was in a bag a little smaller than 50# flour sack.   They were there long enough to get the money, and as soon as I thought they were out I went home.   There was over $2.000 in gold in there.   The rest is currency.   Gold was tied in a cloth.   The paper money was in an envelope.   There was some $100 bills.   Don't remember who paid them in.   They went straight to my pants and did not ask me for them.   The light was shining on my pants, coat and vest were under my pants.   About the same time they took the pants, they caught me.   I did not recognize any of the Defendants.   Had them arrested because Ike Clanton was inquiring for me.   Dionicio swore out a search warrant to search Ebin Stanleys' house.   I did not hear N. M. Gonzales say anything when they took him.   I don't remember of anyone being in my house that night, only Jose Garcias' wife.   There was enough light in the room to see where we were sleeping and also, to see my pants.
(Recess until 2 o'clock P.M.)

The women were in the inner room at the time the men came in.   They could have gone out without coming through the room where I was but it was a window and hard to open and could not lift up.   The $11.000 was in money.   I sometimes had money of my own in the safe but do not know how much I had in the safe at the time.   I had loaned money to people to pay their taxes.   I went out as soon as I thought the men were gone.   They did not take the checks.   The checks were in envelopes.   They took them and threw them on the floor.   Had about $18.000 in safe checks in all. There was about $200 in cash from in the room after the robbery.   I think they put the gold in with the silver in the bag.   I saw them have the envelopes in their hands that had the money in them.   I do not remember how much I counted of the money in the day.   Counted some of it Sunday, about noon.   Counted it because I wanted to put what J. Baca collected while I was gone with the rest.   I did not know how much J. Baca had collected.   When I had time to count the money I counted it and put it in envelopes and marked them.   I gamble and sometimes I lose.   I do not know how much money I loaned to parties to pay taxes.   Don't know how much I have loaned. Don't know whether I have loaned as much as $500.   Did not take any money to the house.   Sometime ago I took some of the money over to the house to count it.   Did not take any money to Springerville.   Took the money to the house when Dionicio Baca was here about 8 P.M., 10 days before this thing occurred to count it because we did not finish counting it here.   We took it sometime before I counted it first for change.

The money was my money.   The money outside of the County money in the safe was mine and my brothers.   I opened the safe because I thought the men would kill me. We saw some tracks but could not tell much.   Teodoro Gonzales said some horses tracks were found above here.   Saw some men's tracks and some of the tracks were fine tracks in one side of the road.   I do not know what kind of a boot Stanley or Clanton wears.

The masks were whiteish, seemed white.   I don't know whether they had boots or not. When they had me turn against the wall, I could turn around sometimes and see the men taking the money out of the safe.   I had stockings on.   Could not tell color of their pants.
Signed, Francisco Baca.
Subscribed and sworn to
before me this 11th day
of January, 1886.
Signed, Benigno Lopez, J.P.


Q. What is your name, place of residence and occupation?
A. I live in Springerville, and name is Patricia Baca.   Am a sister of Francisco Baca.  I was in Francisco Bacas' house in St. Johns on the 27th of December, 1885.   Baca's house is on the other side of Jose Garcia's house in St. Johns, Arizona.   I had been at Francisco Baca's house about 8 days before the robbery.   About sundown, Francisco and N.M. Gonzales came home and some minutes after 9 o'clock, some men went into the house.   Three men took him out of the house and I went to go out but the man put his pistol on me.   He told me to shut up but I did not.   I did not see how many.   Three went out with him and two stayed in the house.   I first saw three and then I saw two.   I saw three men take Francisco out, one with me and N. M. Gonzales, stayed in the room.   Three went with Francisco.   I did not see the two until the others went out.   I saw the three when they went out.   They had masks like gunnysack or paper.   The masks were round.   I noticed the ones that were with me. The masks were white, and seemed like wildcat fur around the ears.   Francisco Bacas' bed was in about the middle of the room, about the middle of the wall.   The man told me to shut up or he would kill me.   Could not have recognized Ike Clanton.   I saw three going out and then, saw two.   As soon as Francisco went out they put their pistols on me.   Franciscos' wife wanted to go out and the same man put a pistol on her.   Jose Garcia's wife was at the house that night. Francisco went to bed about 9 o'clock.   He had been in the room quite a while.   I met Francisco, he told me to shut up that he was alive.   I went shouting all over the town.   The men were big men not very fat.   He seemed to be bigger than Porter.   Francisco was there before dinner and came back before night.   That was the glove I found.   Never saw it before.   They say that it does not belong to any at the house.   I went out just after the men.   It was very dark and I went out just after them.   The boy told me not to go out, they would kill me.   There was no light in where Francisco was.   The mask was white and something.   They were stopping me from going out and N. M. Gonzales too.   I saw two persons after they went out, about 10 yards from house and made a whistle, and it was answered, and they went off.   I saw them where they went off but could not tell where they went.   I met Francisco going home.   He had no pants on.   He was going home.   I found a glove around the house but no tracks.   About 2 yards from the back door, I found the glove in the morning.   It was wet.   The men went out at the front door.   Did not look for any tracks in the morning.   The ground was wet but hard and would not leave a track.  The glove is a man's glove and does not belong there.   I never saw the glove there before.

The men that spoke to me did not have any gloves.   The boy was half dead when I went out.   He was on one side of the door sitting down.   Several parties were there after. Couldn't tell who.   There are two doors in the room where Francisco was, only one door in my room.  They opened the door and spoke to Francisco to go out.   When I got up there were three pushing him out.   I was going to go out but the man stood in the door and would not let me go out.   He was pointing a pistol at me and would keep me back.   Had his hands tied up.   The mask covered his head.   He was a big man and stood close to me.   Where I was, there was a light.   I was looking at him all this 1/2 hour.   His body looked white and looked like a man.   I think he was a man, big, stout hands.   I could not see nothing but the barrel of the pistol.   Had the handle wound up, a new plated pistol.   N. M. Gonzales was in the other room and a man holding a pistol on him.   Francisco's wife wanted to go out but he stopped her.   They spoke pretty good English.   He told me only to shut up or he would kill me.   I would not shut up and told him I wanted to know where Francisco was.   I know Defendants.   Could not recognize any of these men.   Did not see Francisco have any money at the house.   They told Francisco to get up and spoke badly to him.   I saw him pulling Francisco out.   I had taken off my shoes and was holding my baby like wool.   I found the glove in the morning and do not know whether it had been out there all night.   It rained before and after the robbery.
Witness, B.F.M.Blake.                                               Signed, Patricia X Baca.
Subscribed and sworn to                                                                     mark
before me this 11th day
of January, 1886.
Benigno Lopez, J. P.


Q. What is your name, age and occupation?
A. Name, N. M. Gonzales, live in Springerville, have been there a month or so, am 19 years old.   Dionicio Baca hired me to come and help him here at the house of my uncle, Francisco Baca.   At about sundown, me and Francisco Baca left the Court House and went down town and it was a little after sundown when we went to Francisco's house.   I stayed there, went to bed about 9 o'clock.   It was very cloudy, raining.   I was sleeping in the same room that my uncle Francisco was.   I was sleeping on the floor and he was sleeping on the bed, about the middle of the room.   Two women were in the inside room.   It was about 1/2 past 9 o'clock, three masked men came into the room, pushed the door in.   As soon as they came in, two of the men went to Francisco and one of them pointed a six-shooter at me.   One of them said lay down, don't you get up.   Two of the men pushed Francisco out of the house and one of them stayed with me.   As soon as they took Francisco out of the house one more man came into the house.   They stayed there pointing their six-shooters at me, and the women went to make a noise and they pointed at them, and told them to shut up, and told me to keep still.   The two men were in there about 10 minutes.   Clothes seemed black.   Could not tell whether they had hats or not.   I was looking at their six-shooters.   One of them backed out holding his pistol on me.   Did not see them any more. Did not look for any tracks that night.   Looked for tracks next morning but there had been too many people there that night so I could not tell.   I met Francisco coming home.   Lit matches in the Court House.   Mr. Francisco, Tom Hubbell and others.   I did not examine for tracks that night.   Francisco, I think, looked for tracks.   Do not know any of the men that came in the house.   Did not notice their boots nor hats.   Masks looked like rags or something.   Had clothes like men and do not know whether they had hats on or not.   Did not see what they did with Francisco.   Francisco did not say anything when they came into the house.

One of the men squatted down by me and one had hold of Francisco, and one of them had hold of his pants.   The man said to me, "Don't move."   One of the men said to Francisco, "Lay down, don't get up".   When they were taking him out, one of the women looked out, and they told them to keep still.   The light showed out between my bed and Francisco's. Francisco's clothing was laying on one end of the bed, near the corner of the bed.   I think I was with Francisco nearly all that day.   Was in the Treasurer's office that day.   Counted some money that day.   Francisco counted some and told me to figure it up.   I helped him count the silver.   Don't think these men came back to the house.   As soon as these men started to leave the house, they held a pistol on me until they were out.   When they were gone, I went to Tom Perez' house.   Perez did not go to the house when I told him about it. He came to the Court House.   Two of the men were holding the pistols on me, and when the women wanted to make a noise, they pointed at them.   Have not talked to Francisco about this since noon.   There was about $18,000 in the safe.   It just struck nine when we went to bed.   Was with the people that night.   I don't know as any of the Defendants was there or not.   Don't know, only that the safe was opened and robbed.   Francisco, I don't know as he took any money home or not, and do not know if he took any money to Springerville or not.   Francisco got home about sundown, Saturday night.

The pistols seemed pretty bright to me.   I saw the pistols but do not know what kind.   Were not Winchesters.   I think they were big pistols.   I helped count the money.   Figured it out. About $600, silver, $2.000 gold, in checks, about 4 or $5.000.   He kept the silver in the vault in a sack.   The gold was kept in the same place.   Greenbacks' were kept in the safe in envelopes.   The envelopes were not sealed.   He was counting on the table and part of the safe.   I saw him take some out of the envelopes.   Had four or five envelopes.   Counted it and put it back.

( Defense)
J. Baca had the keys of the safe while Francisco was gone.   I knew the combination.   There were 4 or 5 envelopes with money in.   He handled some money when somebody came to pay some taxes.   The envelopes were not sealed.   Don't remember if J. Baca was in there when we counted the money.   Counted the money about noon, before 3 o'clock.   I think the money was there Sunday night.   Think the money was about $18,000. The masks, I don't think had any holes in them, kind of a gunnysack or something.   The man did not sit in the light and could not tell whether they had holes in masks or not.  They had their heads covered up.   Two men stayed there after they left.   They left the door open and stood near the door.   He told the women to shut up.   There is only one window in that room where the women were.   Francisco put the money back in the safe.   I don't think he took any to the house.   We never used the time lock on the safe.
Signed, Nacienceno Gonzales.
Sworn and Subscribed before me
this 4th day of January, 1886.
Benigo, Lopez, J.P.


I was here Sunday.   I know Ike Clanton and some of the others.   I know Finn Clanton, Stanley, Henderson and others, Buck and Gibson.   I saw Ike Clanton that day.   Ike asked me if I had a ring that Tom Hubbell used to have.   He only asked me who had that ring.   I told Ike that Francisco Baca had the ring.   I was out that night after the robbery.   There were a good many men here after the robbery.   We could see some tracks but could not tell whose.   There were some small tracks and some big tracks.   A good many were out.   I did not see any women out.   I did not find any tracks next day.   Did not see any barefoot tracks, it rained.

                                                                  Signed, Alex. X Peralta
Subscribed and sworn to                                              mark
before me this 4th day of
January, 1886.                                          Witness, B.F.M.Blake
Benigo Lopez, J. P.


Q. Give your name, residence and occupation.
A. I live in St. Johns, Thomas S.Hubbell, am Deputy Sheriff.   I was in St. Johns on the 27th December, 1885.   About a quarter before 10, N.M.Gonzales came to the Saloon.   He got scared.   He ran toward Francisco Baca's house and I followed, and met several men running.   We went into the Court House and saw a lot of papers.   Said was checks.   At that time there was about 50 men about the Court House.   Somebody told me they saw three tracks going near Sol Barth's Corral.   I went around next morning but could not find any fresh tracks.   Could find no tracks at all.   Dionicio Baca sent me word that Ike Clanton was in Springerville.   I went to Springerville.   I went to Stanley's house, and to Dionicio's, and then went to the Saloon and found out that Ike was in there.   And when the men came, I went in and arrested him.   I read the warrant to him.   He was drunk, and I did not pay any attention to what he said.   I arrested the other parties.   Could not find any tracks at all.   Got to Springerville in the night.   I saw three horses coming out of the field, one white one.   I met Francisco Baca coming to the Court House with others, and followed.   I noticed the floor, mud on the checks and on the floor.   Did not examine here for tracks, that night.   I came up here next morning.   Saw a track in the sand of a fine boot.   It might have been one of the tracks.   Tracks might have been made by the people.   I did not examine between the Court House and Francisco Baca's.

I found on Ike Clanton, a gun and a piece of sleeve buttons.   I arrested the other parties on account of the prosecuting witness.

                                                               Signed, T.S. Hubbell.

Subscribed and sworn
to before me this 4th
day of January, 1886.
Benigo Lopez, J. P.

Q. What is your name, place of residence and occupation?
A. Name is Romolo Tafolla, reside in St. Johns, Arizona and am a jailor.   I was here when the safe was robbed.   I was in the jail.   Tom Hubbell is the first that told me.   I saw tracks but do not know whether were made by the robbers or not.   The tracks were of fine boots. There was a big crowd here that night.   I did not find any tracks next day.   I saw Ike Clanton the day of the robbery.   He asked me who had such a ring, and I told him, Francisco Baca. He said the ring belonged to a woman and that he was obliged to take it home.   That is all he said to me.   I think it was about 9 o'clock when Ike went out.   He had a kind of a white horse.   Did not see him any more that day.   I looked around for tracks but did not see any barefoot tracks.   I did not find any horse tracks and looked all around town, all the roads.   I saw the tracks the two men made going to tell Dionicio Baca of the robbery.   They are all the tracks I saw.

Witness, B.F.M.Blake                                             Signed, Romolo X Tafolla
Subscribed and sworn to before me                                               mark
this 4th day of January, 1886.
Benigo Lopez, J. P.

My name is J.N. Skousen, live in Springerville, Farmer.   I am acquainted with Mr. Stanley, Ike Clanton and his brother.   On the 27th of December, I was down here.   Ike Clanton caught up with us and we gave him some lunch.   It was about 2 o'clock.   He ate the lunch and went home.   I asked him to come down and prove up on my land.   He said he would be here as soon as I was.   He was here when I got here.   I would not have seen him anymore that day.   I saw him Monday morning.   He was doing nothing, sitting by the fire. Mr. Clanton said, it was a good thing we came home or we would both be arrested.   I believe Ike rode a gray horse that day.
                                                                      Signed, J.N. Skousen.
Subscribed and sworn to before
me this 4th day of January,1886
Benigo Lopez. J. P.


Q. What is your name, residence and occupation?
A. My name is Wm.S.Atchison, reside in Springerville, am a Farmer.
I am slightly acquainted with some of the Defendants.   Last Sunday, we was the principle part of the day between here and Springerville.   I saw one of the Defendants; it might have been 1 o'clock.   We took lunch.   One of the Defendants, Ike Clanton, caught up with us. The woman that was with us gave Ike a little lunch, and Ike and I wet our whistles.   We traveled probably an hour together.   We took a little and Ike went on home.   I got out of Mr. Skousen's wagon at his ranch and went home.   When Ike went on, he said when you get up stop at the house.   When I got there Ike met me at the gate a week ago last Sunday.   It was about or a little before sundown.   Mr. C. and I were here as witnesses here for Mr. Skousen.   I had told Mr. Skousen he could use my name.   I told Mr. Skousen I could not go then.   He came after me with a wagon.   Ike was here when we got here.   I saw a man going from the house to the corral.   When I got to the house, Ike was there and had a comb in his hand.   The last time I saw Ike was when I passed there on Sunday evening.   I think the horse had been docked.   The next time I saw Ike was at Dionicio Baca's with hobbles on.   Ike sent for me.   That was on Tuesday.   Did not see him on Monday.   The last time I saw him, Sunday, was about sundown.
Signed, Wm. Atchison.
Subscribed and sworn to before me
this 4th day of January, 1886.
Benigo Lopez, J. P.


Q. What is your name and occupation?
A. Marcelino Jaramillo, live in Round Valley, am a Laborer.   I know Francisco Baca and Dionicio Baca, and have heard of this robbery.   And I think it was on the 27th day of December, 1885.   I was in Round Valley.   I know Stanley and Lee Renfro, Clanton.   Know Gibson by sight and Finn Clanton.   I did not see any of these men on that day and was in Springerville that day.   Did not see Ike Clanton that day in the Valley.   I was in Springerville all the 27th of December in Round Valley.   On the 28th I came to St. Johns.   I saw Ike Clanton on the 25th and 26th in Round Valley.   I saw him after the robbery at Stanleys' on the 28th at about 8 o'clock.   He was doing nothing.   Don't remember of seeing any horses. Don't know if Ike Clanton was here on the 27th.   Don't think I was in the Saloon all day Sunday.   Might have seen them if they had been there.   I saw Ike Clanton and Lee on Monday-morning.   Ike and I had a bargain Saturday, and told him I would be there.   He could not come.   I had no sucess here with Ike Clanton in regard to the County Funds. They never spoke anything to me about holding up Francisco Baca.   The business had no connection with anything of that kind.
                                                               Signed, Marcelino Jaramillo.
Subscribed and sworn to
before me this 4th day
of January, 1886.
Benigno Lopez, J. P.

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From Jack Becker's Collection